View source for ConferenceCall 2021 08 11

{| class="wikitable" style="float:right; margin-left: 10px;" border="1" cellpadding="10"
|-
! scope="row" | Session
| [[session::Universal Query Language]]
|-
! scope="row" | Duration
| [[duration::1 hour]]
|-
! scope="row" rowspan="3" | Date/Time
| [[has date::11 August 2021 16:00 GMT]]
|-
| 9:00am PDT/12:00pm EDT
|-
| 5:00pm BST/6:00pm CEST
|-
! scope="row" | Convener
| [[convener::KenBaclawski]]
|}

= {{#show:{{PAGENAME}}|?Session}} =

== Agenda ==
* 12:00 - 13:00 EDT '''[[JohnSowa|John Sowa]]''' ''Universal Query Language: Declarative or procedural, linear or graphic'' The slides are available from two sources: [https://bit.ly/3s8ybbG Slides] and [http://jfsowa.com/talks/uql.pdf Slides]
** [https://bit.ly/3jv1CC5 Video Recording]

== Conference Call Information ==
* Date: '''Wednesday, 11 August 2021''' 
* Start Time: 9:00am PDT / 12:00pm EDT / 6:00pm CEST / 5:00pm BST / 1600 UTC 
** ref: [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=08&day=11&year=2021&hour=12&min=00&sec=0&p1=179 World Clock] 
* Expected Call Duration: 1 hour
{{:OntologySummit2022/ConferenceCallInformation}}

== Attendees ==
* [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]
* [[AndrewDougherty|Andrew Dougherty]]
* [[BillMcCarthy|Bill McCarthy]]
* [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]
* [[CassiopeiaMiles|Cassiopeia Miles]]
* [[DavidEddy|David Eddy]]
* [[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]
* [[DouglasRMiles|Douglas R Miles]]
* [[FrancisGillisWebber|Francis Gillis-Webber]]
* [[JacobFriedman|Jacob Friedman]]
* [[JanetSinger|Janet Singer]]
* [[JansAasman|Jans Aasman]]
* [[JohnSowa|John Sowa]]
* [[JSHughes|J.S. Hughes]]
* [[KenBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]]
* Meena
* [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]
* [[PhilBryan|Phil Bryan]]
* [[RamSriram|Ram D. Sriram]]
* [[RaviSharma|Ravi Sharma]]
* [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]
* [[ToddSchneider|Todd Schneider]]

== Discussion ==
[12:28] Douglas R Miles: Questions for John:  Are two quantifiers enough (donkey quantifiers?)

[12:40] MikeBennett: Surely much of the 'fuzziness' can be solved by distinguishing (a) 'Seat' - something you sit on, and (b) 'chair': something built for sitting on

[12:41] ToddSchneider: Mike, yes. To what level of detail is an entity distinguished.

[12:43] Jacob Friedman: including intension/extension

[12:44] AlexShkotin: chair is hard https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chair

[12:45] Ram D. Sriram: @John Sowa: Do you have any references of the use of Zachman framework for ontology development.

[12:45] ToddSchneider: Ram,

[12:46] ToddSchneider: Ram, the usual interrogatives (i.e., who, what, where, when, ...) are themselves effective analysis tools for ontology development.

[12:48] BobbinTeegarden: John, how do you model context (w w w w w + h)?  You showed Which (not part of the w+h string) and Why, where are the others?

[12:48] Douglas R Miles: speaking of 'fuzziness', it would be nice that people could give a value that says how far an instance is from the prototypical

[12:49] Douglas R Miles: (of course we have to define the prototypical)

[12:49] Ram D. Sriram: Here is an example of Zachman's framework for Standards Development: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251255745_Towards_a_Methodology_for_Analyzing_Sustainability_Standards_using_the_Zachman_Framework

[12:49] David Eddy: A Zachman Framework IMPLEMENTATION.... https://tdan.com/semantics-in-metadata-repository-and-systems-integration-efforts/6123

[12:49] David Eddy: The implementer was a Marine.

[12:50] David Eddy: I was never able to get John Zachman to talk about that bottom, implementation row.

[12:50] AlexShkotin: https://www.zachman.com/about-the-zachman-framework

[12:51] RaviSharma: Hello chat is accessible to me now

[12:52] RaviSharma: David - the reason is that implemented enterprise is a living changing and organization practices based "living" thing?

[12:53] ToddSchneider: Bobbin, One approach to 'context' is use of the notion 'relevance'. What is 'relevant' to the 'immediate' entities or processes of interest (at a particular spatio-temporal extent)

[12:54] David Eddy: @Ravi... obviously formally capturing change is an essential ingredient for success

[12:57] David Eddy: Goes without saying Zachman "cell" framework is the language used in each cell tends to be somewhat unique.  Something of a challenge to the base concept of "universal."

[12:59] BobbinTeegarden: @Todd, thanks interesting... but how do you physically model 'relevance' or context...?

[13:00] BobbinTeegarden: By the way, John Zachman was looking for help in turning his boxes into an ontology, any takers?  Mike Bennett and I were talking to him about it a few years ago...

[13:01] Douglas R Miles: An important part of a "query language"  is when a "Select person from table1 where bornAfter 1950"  (loves ?J Mary)  if the binding of both of these should be considered the same people or not

[13:02] Douglas R Miles: (FromDatabase "Joe") vs JoeTheGuy   should be unifiable

[13:03] ToddSchneider: Bobbin, ahhh .... Details. 'Relevance' can be modeled as a numerical value between 0 and 1 (similar to a probability, if not explicitly a probability). But 'Relevance' also depends on the object/subject of focus (i.e. what is of interest) and another (potentially relevant) entity.

[13:06] RaviSharma: Zachman - framework which deals with all types of tools from requirements to systems that run enterprises as in defense, manufacturing, in and then I asked my Q to  John

[13:06] RaviSharma: john will send references

[13:07] RaviSharma: john- each specialization will be thru dialog, tools in framework etc

[13:08] RaviSharma: same dialog at each level for 6 rows

[13:11] RaviSharma: john- jcl, cobol, etc legacy to do software re engineering Arun and Andre - Tailored to derive ontology and find relations? Accenture estimates were 80 human years

[13:12] RaviSharma: john was able to have these two persons do it in few weeks with ontogies, NLP, etc level.

[13:15] RaviSharma: developing a general dialogue system

[13:15] Andrew Dougherty: D3WA+ ?

[13:15] RaviSharma: simplifying to QA level

[13:16] RaviSharma: people in Enterprise can talk about computer or language

[13:16] RaviSharma: john's comments above

[13:17] BobbinTeegarden: Isn't Zachman more oriented towards the process, not the data (ontology) side of the business?

[13:17] BobbinTeegarden: You go ahead and ask...

[13:18] RaviSharma: john cited reference for Bobbin link.

[13:19] RaviSharma: a link in his references list.

[13:20] David Eddy: ... & humans will ask a silent question by raising an eyebrow...

[13:22] RaviSharma: Thanks Ken, we need to tie UQL with KG SQL?

Added later by KenBaclawski: @RaviSharma: KGSQL is specified in DOL, which ties KGSQL with UQL.  KGSQL is also specified with denotational semantics which is useful for directly implementing KGSQL.  I have a translation to SPARQL. which could also be used for implementing KGSQL.  Incidentally, the reason why I asked for the CLIP specification in DOL is so that I could develop a translation to CLIP.

[13:22] RaviSharma: thanks

[13:22] BobbinTeegarden: John, are you building us a tool to do the interaction within a DOL framework?

[13:23] Douglas R Miles: Problem is these great Natural Language Understanding stuff is kept locked up

[13:23] janet singer: The topic Formal Ontology as Computer Artifact that Alex suggested would be a way to concretize issues raised here. The terms syntax, semantics, pragmatics are helpfully clarified by understanding that humans and machines both play roles in the artifaction context.

== Resources ==
* The slides are available from two sources:
** [https://bit.ly/3s8ybbG Slides]
** [http://jfsowa.com/talks/uql.pdf Slides]
* [https://bit.ly/3jv1CC5 Video Recording]

[[Category:Icom_conf_Conference]]
[[Category:Occurrence| ]]