View source for UoM Ontology Standard/Workshop 2009 10 30

= [[UoM_Ontology_Standard]] workshop (Face-to-Face) - Fri 2009-10-30  =

== Topic: Moving the [[UoM_Ontology_Standard]] Forward  ==

Workshop Co-chair: '''Mr. [[EdwardBarkmeyer|Edward Barkmeyer]] (NIST), Dr. [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]] (NSF) & Mr. [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]] (BAE, ISO)''' 

''This is a face-to-face workshop for the [[UoM_Ontology_Standard]] working group. The session will be focused on getting the work, up to this point, into a draft standard. Other members of the community interested in tracking the progress of this work are welcome to join as observers. Remote participation is supported as well.'' 

* '''Location:''' 

National Science Foundation,

Room 1235 (Director's Conference Room),

4201 Wilson Blvd.,

Arlington, VA 

Our NSF Host: Dr. [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]] 

* '''[http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30_Registration Registration, Venue & Remote dial-in information]''' 

* '''[http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid22GX Agenda]''' 

=== Archives  ===

* '''[http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid22GX Abstract]''' 
* '''Our panel's prepared slides''' can be accessed by clicking on the [ slides ] links against each [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid22GX agenda] items below 
** one could access the entire collection of slides and other related material [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/ here]. 
* '''Audio Recording of the session:''' (mp3)''[http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid23E2 *]'' 
** Recording segment-1: (i) '''[ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/UoM_workshop_20091030-1.mp3 Opening & Progress-to-date] ]''' (1:06:07 ; 7.6MB) 
** Recording segment-2: (ii) '''[ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/UoM_workshop_20091030-2.mp3 Consensus on Scope] ]''' (2:07:23 ; 15.0MB) 
** Recording segment-3: (iii) '''[ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/UoM_workshop_20091030-3.mp3 Moving Ahead to an SDO] ]''' (2:15:15 ; 15.0MB) 
* '''[ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid22HQ Transcript of the online chat session] ]''' during the panel discussion 
* additional '''[ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid22G6 Resources] ]''' and follow-up 
* '''[http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/pic/ pictures]''' of some of those who were on-site at the workshop at the NSF venue 

=== Session Details  ===

* Date: '''Friday, 30-October-2009''' 
* Start Time:  8:30am EDT / 5:30am PDT / 1:30pm CEST / 12:30pm BST / 12:30 UTC 
** ref. [ [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=30&year=2009&hour=5&min=30&sec=0&p1=224 World Clock] ] 
* Expected Session Duration: ''please refer to [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid22GX agenda details below]'' 
* Remote Dial-in Number: see - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30_Registration#nid22JR Session Access Details] 

* '''Discussions and Q & A:''' 
** Anyone who wants to speak should raise their hands and/or be recognized by the session chair first, before doing so. 
** Before you speak, please always identify yourself and make sure you can be heard (by both onsite and remote participants) 
** You can '''type in your questions or comments through the browser''' based chat session by: 
*** pointing a separate browser tab (or window) to http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room and enter: Room="'''[http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/uom_20091030 uom_20091030]'''" and My Name="Your Own Name" (e.g. "JaneDoe") 
** or point your browser to: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/uom_20091030 
*** instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field). You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen. 
** For remote participants, (when everyone is muted) '''If you want to speak''' or have questions or remarks to make, '''please "raise your hand (virtually)" by click on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the speaker or the session moderator (again, press "*3" on your phone to unmute). ''Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please.'' (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*2" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.) 
** thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) <nowiki><uom_20091030@soaphub.org></nowiki> ... Handy for mobile devices! 

* This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30 

* Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under [[WikiHomePage#Intellectual_Property_Rights_.28IPR.29_Policy|our prevailing open IPR policy]]. 

== Agenda  ==

'''Opening & Progress-to-Date''' ... (i) [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/UoM_workshop_20091030-1.mp3 audio] ] (1:06:07 ; 7.6MB) 

* 8:30am EDT  Welcome, introductions, administrivia - [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]] 

* 9:00  goals of the workshop - [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]] ... [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/Goals--HowardMason_20091030a.ppt slides] ] 
** Motivation and market for this work 
** rules for conducting the meeting (if there are many attendees), 
** call for agenda items, adoption of agenda 
** Proposed work plan going forward (preview here ... to be adopted towards end of session) - [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]] / [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] ... [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/Trac-Motivation-and-Status--JoelBender_20091022.pdf slides] ] from [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/ConferenceCall_2009_10_22 2009.10.22] 

'''Accomplishments-to-date:''' 

* 9:15 Selection of base documents - moderator: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] 
** the VIM 
** ISO/IEC 80000 
** UN/ECE Rec. 20 
** QUDT 
** SWEET 
** UCUM 
** [[UnitsML]] 
** [[SysML]] / [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SysML/QUDV QUDV] 
** other? 

* 9:30  Agreement on languages - moderator: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] 
** proposed is OWL (OWL2 DL), CLIF (owl-ized), and UML class diagrams for presentation/discussion 

* 9:40  Discussion on Work-in-progress Drafts - moderator: [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]] 
** [[UoM_Ontology_Standard_English_draft]] - [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] 
** [[UoM_Ontology_Standard_UML_Model_draft]] - [[DavidLeal|David Leal]] 
** [[UoM_Ontology_Standard_OWL_draft]] - [[RobRaskin|Rob Raskin]], [[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]] & [[HansPeter_de_Koning]] 
** [[UoM_Ontology_Standard_CLIF_draft]] - [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]] 

* 10:00 Break 

'''Consensus on Scope:''' ... (ii) [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/UoM_workshop_20091030-2.mp3 audio] ] (2:07:23 ; 15.0MB) 

* 10:15  Scope issues 
** ref. draft scope statement - [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] ... [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/UOM-scope--Barkmeyer_20091030a.pdf slides] ] 
** units only, or quantities and units models 
** specific named units: SI-only, metric-only, the UCUM set 
** relationship to existing standards - VIM, UCUM, [[UnitsML]], etc. 
** conversion 
** scales 
** measurement and uncertainty 
** specification and tolerance 
** priorities and microtheories 
** other? 

* 12:00-1:00pm EDT - lunch 

'''Moving Ahead to an SDO:''' ... (iii) [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/UoM_workshop_20091030-3.mp3 audio] ] (2:15:15 ; 15.0MB) 

* 1:00 Standardization Strategy - [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]] ... [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-ontology-standard-workshop_20091030/Standardization-Strategy--HowardMason_20091030a.ppt slides] ] 
** OASIS and the OASIS Process - [[JamieClark]] 
** confirmation on moving project to OASIS 
** discussion: proposed OASIS TC Charter 
*** see: [[UoM_Ontology_Standard_OASIS_TC_Charter_draft]] 
** identification of the OASIS TC conveners/initial-workgroup 

'''Content Issues:''' 

* 1:30  Alignment issues (from base docs) - [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]] 
** basic conceptual concern:  what is a measurement unit (a quantity, a magnitude, something completely different) 
** dimensions and dimensional algebras 
** derivation representation 
** conversion representation 
** other? 

* 2:45 break 

'''Workplan & Next Steps:''' 

* 3:00 next steps 
** adopt a workplan 
** action items, target dates 
** telecon schedule 
** resources 

* 3:30 adjournment 

== Proceedings  ==

Please refer to the [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid22I9 archives above] 

===IM Chat Transcript captured during the session=== (lightly edited for clarity) 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Welcome to the: [[UoM_Ontology_Standard]] workshop (Face-to-Face)        

- Fri 2009-10-30 (210C) Topic: Moving the [[UoM_Ontology_Standard]] Forward 

Workshop Co-chair: Mr. [[EdwardBarkmeyer|Edward Barkmeyer]] (NIST), Dr. [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]] (NSF) & Mr. [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]] (BAE, ISO) 

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: Hello anon! 

anonymous1 morphed into [[RogerBurkhart|Roger Burkhart]] 

anonymous morphed into Silvia Gaio 

anonymous morphed into [[HansPeter_de_Koning]] 

anonymous morphed into Bo Vargas (Raytheon) 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: 8:50am EDT - session started ... 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: participants introduced themselves 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]] declared the session open 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: 8:57am - [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]] - presenting our "Goals" 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]] has jointed the chat room. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]] is presenting a brief talk on our goals for the        

project. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Howard mentioned the case of ton - which has multiple        

definitions in differents systems of units. Worse, ton has several        

different possible dimensionalities: ton as unit of mass, ton as unit of        

power (for refrigeration), and ton as unit of energy (as in megatons of        

yield for nuclear weapons. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We are now discussing the base documents. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: VIM is available from BIPM at http://www.bipm.org. It is a        

vocabulary for understanding units of measurements. 9:09 AM 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: ISO 80000 is a now a successor to ISO 31 (SI units). 9:10 am 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: UN/ECE Recommendation 20 is from UN/CEFACT. This is a        

recommendation for use in cross border trade. 9:11 am 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: QUDT was produced by Top Quadrant, for NASA Ames. 9:12        

[[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]] is now discussing this. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: SWEET is a large ontology created by NASA JPL. Part is        

measurement units, in OWL DL based on .... by Unidata. It is in OWL DL.        

09:13:00 AM 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: ISO/IEC 80000 "Quantities and units" will replace        

both ISO 31 and IEC 60027. Currently 8 parts are released as        

International Standard 

[[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]]: The QUDT draft specification and links to the ontology        

files can be found here http://www.qudt.org 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: UCUM is being adopted by HL7 and Open Geospatial Information        

consortium. Developed by Gunther Schadow (not present). 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: There is some argument about UCUM - it only considers units        

not quantities. 9:14 am 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: One of the sources for QUDT was the March 2009        

version of the QUDV (Quantities, Units, Dimensions and Values) model for        

[[SysML]] RTF 1.2, provided by European Space Agency (ESA) to [[TopQuadrant]] 

anonymous morphed into Nicola Guarino 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[UnitsML]] originally from NIST, now an OASIS project. This is        

intended to markup units for xml / html documents. It is an XML schema,        

not an ontology. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[UnitsML]] tries to sort out units, beyond ISO, UCUM. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[RogerBurkhart|Roger Burkhart]] and [[HansPeter_de_Koning]] developed QUDV. They        

are on the line. New version is coming soon. Covers units and        

dimensions. 9:17 am 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: QUDV now has a version as an OWL ontology. Documented on the        

OMG wiki site. 

[[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]]: Hans, thanks for clarifying the source [[SysML]] source for        

QUDT. 

Nicola Guarino: Is the shared screen working? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: 9:19am - Nicola, no we do not have the shared screen        

working. You need to download slides directly from the web page, 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Correct spelling is [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]. 

anonymous morphed into [[BrandNiemann|Brand Niemann]] 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Welcome [[BrandNiemann|Brand Niemann]], we are now discussing the base        

documents. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Agenda for the meeting is at:        

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2        

009_10_30#nid22GX 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: The initial OWL version of [[SysML]] QUDV is available        

at http://www.omgwiki.org/OMGSysML/doku.php?id=sysml-qudv:qudv_owl 

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: http://clarkparsia.com/files/pdf/units-owled2008-eu.pdf 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: See also Quantities in OWL at http://bit.ly/2wodVR by Bijan        

Parsia and Michael Smith, presented at OWLED 2008. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: On "other?" document base ... check out MikeDean's input        

(http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/uom-ontology-std/2009-10/msg00108.html#ni        

d04) and possibly something VinayChaudri of SRI may be sending us 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: 9:27 am - For QUDT see the presentation at        

http://bit.ly/47v3gF 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: now that we realize that QUDV has an OWL ontology available,        

and Hans-Peter de Koning has agreed to support us on this effort, our        

OWL champions will now comprise of: [[RobRaskin|Rob Raskin]], [[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]] &        

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]] 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]] - CLIF suitable for normative representation,        

rather than implementation. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] notes that we will likely use OWL (OWL Full? OWL        

DL?) also. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] notes the possible use of UML diagrams to help        

understand the [[UoM]] ontology. 9:32 am 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] notes UML diagrams will not be normative. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: EdBarkemeyer - I am sure we will use OWL 2.0. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: we should publish as much as possible in OWL 2.0        

DL. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: rationale for use of OWL is to get it out to the        

world. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Also use OWL 2.0 Full when necessary. 

[[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: Bottom line, the normative version will be in CLIF, with        

informative versions available in OWL and UML, right? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: The point of the CLIF version is as a reference        

for implementors. 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Steve: Yes, I think that is basically right. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Will the anonymous person please change yourself so as to        

identify yourself. Click on settings button to do this. .....9:40 am 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: OWL 2 is definitely better than OWL 1, i.e., more        

expressive. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: We need to make it clear the users of ontology are        

required to implement in CLIF. 

anonymous morphed into Mark Rivas 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: CLIF will be normative reference, will also        

publish informative version in OWL 2 DL. 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Frank: NOT required... 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Pat, do you mean that OWL 2 DL is not a required        

publication? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Hans-Peter, are there tools for publication into CLIF, e.g.,        

syntax checkers? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: yes, there are parsers. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: There is a CLIF mail exploder to standards/tool        

developers. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: people will gravitate to the document in the        

language they know. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: In SC4 that would be text files or xml. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: This will help adoption (multi-lingual versions). 

[[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: The advantage is that people can stay in their comfort zones        

regarding development environments. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: RogerBurkhardt: QUDT also uses Object Constraint Language. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: 9:50am EDT - review / discussion on work-in-progress (draft) 

[[RogerBurkhart|Roger Burkhart]]: The QUDV model uses the OMG Object Constraint Language        

(OCL) in combination with UML class diagrams to express consistency and        

derivation rules such as dimensional analysis. The greater        

expressibility of Common Logic could be important to express such        

internal constraints. 

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: As a follow up to my comment, I forgot to complete the        

thought. When a document is presented in more than one language it        

multiplies the amount of work that is needed to keep everything        

consistent, and there is a danger that some constraint cannot be        

represented in one or more of the languages. This is pretty obvious when        

stated, but isn't always followed through very well depending on how        

well the committee participants cooperate. Just a note of my personal        

anxiety as the process continues. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We are getting ready to resume the discussion here shortly        

-10:21:00 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: @Joel: I fully agree. Ideally we should have an        

automated way of generating alternative informative specifications,        

avoiding dependence on human transformations. 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Joel: I agree this is an issue we should be aware of. Just        

baldly publishing several 'versions' would not do the job. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: 10:25am EDT now going into "Scope issues" 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] is speaking on the Scope of the Units of Measure        

Ontology. see his slides linked from the meeeting agenda. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: First issue units of measure only, or also quantities. UCUM        

has not quantities. NIST believes we need quantities. 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: In the OMG, there is a specification called Query,        

Views & Transformations, QVT, which provides support for specifying        

mappings of an ontology to/from different representations in, e.g., UML,        

OWL, RDF, etc... This approach is what the Ontology Definition Metamodel        

(ODM) uses to specify the mappings amongst UML, OWL, RDFS and Topic        

Maps. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]], [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]], [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]] agree that we need        

quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[GuntherSchadow|Gunther Schadow]] wanted only units - but he is not on the        

call. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Nicola Guarino concurs with units + quantities, also wants        

reference frames for coordinates, etc. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: by the model of quantities you mean to include        

dimensionality. [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] the VIM talks about quantities,        

measurements, units. See David Leal's 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: See DavidLeal's UML diagrams on his web page. 

anonymous morphed into [[JamieClark]] 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] - SI is about scalar quantities. Do we restrict        

scope to scalar quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We need to talk about vector quantities to differentiate        

between work and torque. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: we have a model of quantities which        

allows tensor measurements. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: start with scalars and do tensors        

later. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: Differentiating between torque and work is        

non-trivial. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: We need to cover scalars, we will need to        

extend to vectors and tensors eventually. We should start with scalars,        

but not preclude vectors and tensors. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: EdBarkemeyer: simply create base types for vectors but do        

not explicate them further. 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: Terminology: tensor of rank 0 is scalar; rank 1 is        

vector; rank 2 is matrix; rank > 2 is higher order tensor 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: We should be careful about saying that the        

ontology defines things. 

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: What is the chance that some user of this work will pick the        

wrong label, or build a derived work, that uses the wrong class? What is        

the consequence of picking the wrong one? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: We are drifting in substantive issues, not just        

scope matters. I want to return to what the scope of the ontology. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: We clearly need to address scalars, possibly        

vectors, ... tensors. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: particular quantity is a property of a specific        

physical object. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: ref to [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]], two stick both 30 cm long ==>        

these are two different particular quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: amount of length of the two sticks is the same        

if both sticks are 30 cm. Do we need notion of particular quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: we do not need particular quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: we only need abstract quantities, not        

particular quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JoeCollins|Joe Collins]]: we need both notions. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: quantity kind is sometimes referred as        

dimension. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: If these particular quantities are understood        

strictly, e.g., "mass-of". Two different protons cannot have the same        

mass. Are we talking 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: ChipMasters's: comment on bullet 2. The degree to which we        

need to capture the distinction between scalar, vector, tensor is        

dependent on how detailed we want 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: to model physical laws. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JamieClark]]: A rough consensus on abstract quantities, but we        

will need some notion of particular quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: The issue we cannot get rid of is that of        

particular measurements (with errors uncertainties). 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: purely philosophical issue of what we want to        

ontologize. Particular quantities are useless in the ontology. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: Physicists think in terms of particular        

quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: we have will have URI for quantities,        

quantity kinds (dimensionality). 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Nicola Guarino: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]] seems to want to get rid of        

particular quantities. 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: To be precise the definitionURI for a kind of        

quantity or a unit will refer to the ISO/IEC 80000 normative definition 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: one can speak about length of meeting without        

reference to a particular measurement. 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Nicola is correct 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: we have identified an issue, the extent we        

connect to external standards for quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: We certainly need abstract quantities, unclear        

about particular quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Pavithra: quantity is not an object, it is an attribute. It        

has types. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: as designed measurement, as manufactured        

measurement. 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: Agree with Pavithra; I think that NicolaGuarino's        

question could be stated as follows: 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: I agree with Pavritha also. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: kind of quantities = dimensions. The nature of        

the thing being measured. 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Some kinds of Q may be distinguished on other criteria than        

dimension. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: quantity kinds can be subtyped: length can be        

height, depth, width, .... 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: I prefer dimensionality to quantity kind. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]]: we need both ..., dimensionality presumes a        

system of units .... 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: 1) Temperature of a Person: this is a general property        

in the sense that a Person is a general concept. 2) Temperature of        

Nicola Guarino is a specialization of the property: Temperature of a        

Person. 3) Temperature of [[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]] is a distinct specialization        

of the property: Temperature of a Person. 4) We can then further        

specialize the property to narrow the context in which we want to talk        

about such quantities as properties of things in some context. 5) A        

measurement model (In the sense of VIM) can impose additional        

constraints on the context in which we can say that a quantity property        

is measurable and then talk about a measurement as another kind of        

property about a property quantity which is a property of something. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: dimensionality presuppses choice of        

base unit .... 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: EdBarkemeyer: count is another quantity kind. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: we need to differntiate between quantity kind        

and quantity role (length vs. height, width, ...) 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: According to VIM kind of quantity is NOT the same        

as dimension - Dimension of a (kind of) quantity is the product of        

powers of base quantities that you have selected for your system of        

quantities 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Nicola Guarino: Two different quantities might have same        

dimension. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: quantity kinds and dimension kinds 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: dimension = quantity kind role 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: The VIM terms are "kind of quantity" and "quantity        

dimension" 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Nicolas: "specialization of a quantity" isn't a very useful        

notion, as it has no way to be cashed out in any theories of quantity        

relations. The temperature of Nicola (at a time, as determined by an act        

of measurement) is not a specialization of temperature, it is a *value*        

of temperature. It is not a property at all, but an actual temperature.        

The property *temperature of person* is formally a set of pairs <x        

y>where x is a person and y is a temperature. We have to allow        

temperatures in this ('abstract') sense to *exist*, and when we do, they        

suffice to say all that we want to say. 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: @PatHayes: "Temperature of Nicola" is a Tensor; this        

property is not tied to a particular context. We can specialize this        

tensor, e.g., to refer to the "Temperature of Nicola on Oct. 30, 2009"        

which isn't a measurement either. 

anonymous morphed into NSF-venue 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Dimension seems overloaded. Dimension in physics seems to        

mean quantity kind. Dimension in engineering is a role (e.g., height,        

width). 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JamieClark]]: we should defer further discussion to        

substantive phase of the project. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: We need to tie our concepts to standards,        

standard termionologies, e.g., VIM. 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Nicolas: OK, you beat me. I have no idea what you are talking        

about. HOwever, *temperature of nicola* is certainly not a tensor in        

CLIF, OWL or any ontology formalism I know of. 

[[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]]:        

http://books.google.com/books?id=pIlCAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]]: dimensionality = systems dimension (dependent        

on systems of measure) 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: I said that, ideally, the UOM should really be an        

ontology of VIM and nothing else. VIM has the benefit of having been        

thoroughly vetted and reviewed in the scientific community for,        

literally, hundreds of years. 

[[JoeCollins|Joe Collins]]: "quantity dimension" is well defined, "dimension" is not 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: We should stick to the VIM as closely as possible. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: Chapter I conflates two notions of quantity        

(Ch. I of VIM). VIM was written by physicists not engineer. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: We will to model systems of quantities. 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: Ed: could you specifically point to where VIM is        

ambiguous or conflicting about the notion of quantity? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: Will we model any other systems than SI? 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: QUDV in [[SysML]] 1.2 allows you to define your own system        

of units, whether it is a subset of SI, a superset, overlaps with SI or        

is completely different. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: We will model systems of quantities. Will we        

model any other systems of measurement within this ontology. 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: Similarly, QUDV in [[SysML]] 1.2 allows you to define your        

own system of quantities; there is no constraint that says that one has        

to use all of ISQ. 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: (ISQ = Int. System of Quantities, which is part of        

ISO/IEC 80000) 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]]: we certainly want to model SI, perhaps other        

systems if folks need them. Also possibly use other systems to        

illustrate concepts from ontology. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Hans-Peter, you are putting music onto our phone line ...        

please do not put your phone on hold 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Some from European Space Agency has put us on hold and is        

paying music. Please do not do this. 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: Apologies! I had a call on my second line... 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: EdBarkmeyers: We are discussing systems of quantities (not        

yet systems of units). 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: thank you, Hans-Peter 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Hans-Peter: it was very entertaining. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: NicolasRoquette: QUDV can handle multiple systems of        

quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Some systems of quantities (SI) use current as a base        

dimension and then charge = current * time. Other systems use charge as        

base dimension, and current = charge / time. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @NicolaGuarino - could you document the point you just made on        

this chat board, please 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: To what extent we cover other systems of        

quantities than SI? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]]: Charge = sqrt of force (via Coulomb's Law) 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: EdBarkmeyers: Do we cover derived quantities as come        

computation over base quantities? Does anyone disagree? 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: I think we need to review the [[SysML]] QUDV in the        

context of this discussion. We already covered the problems of other        

systems of units/quantities and the support for dimensional analysis,        

coherence and derivation. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]]: I disagree, this would requite an ontology of        

operators. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: I agree with Ed. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: We could have an incomplete model of derivations. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: Derivations are simple. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: NicolasRoquette: Both VIM and QUDV include derivations of        

derived units. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: NicolasRoquette: VIM and QUDV differentiate between quantity        

kinds and dimenisonality. 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: @Frank: My name is spelled Rouquette, not Roquette. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: Derived units are within scope. Details to be        

determined. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Pavithra: record system of units explicitly. 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: The [[SysML]] QUDV contains a full OCL algorithm that        

specifies how to automatically derive the quantity dimension for any        

(kind of) quantity that is defined within a system of quantities. The        

system of quantities defines its base quantities. One individual system        

of quantities can represent the ISQ (International System of        

Quantities). 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: We need to model systems of units explicitly. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: Which units go into ontology. Clearly need SI        

base units? do we add joules? what about metric prefixes? do we add all        

of these derived units? on do we rely on a library of derived units? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JoeCollins|Joe Collins]]: cgs units are not part of SI. Include SI named        

units, metric prefixes? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: separate out derived units 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: I agree - put derived units in a library, not core        

ontology. 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: To be precise I would separate the basic concepts        

in a base ontology, then create a second ISQ/SI ontology the imports the        

base ontology and adds the most important ISQ/SI quantities and units 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: there are libraries out there ... Do we assume        

that libraries will become published extensions? What about UCUM? But        

they are not ontologies .... 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: Scope will include how to do extensions. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: rule based registry or explicit choice        

maintenance authority? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: EdBarkemeyer: Need a model of unit derviation. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: I agree with Ed on unit derivation. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: we will not formalize real arithmetic in OWL,        

likely not in Common Logic. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: We specify explicilty dimensionsal        

analysis in QUDV - including derivation of derived units and quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[RogerBurkhart|Roger Burkhart]]: We only do simple derivations, expect we will        

need to support unit conversion. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: Are scales within scope: ratio scales (length,        

time) Absolute scales (mass, temperature)? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Yes, I think so. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: What about Rockwell Hardness? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: We included absolute scales in QUDV. It        

is essential for many engineering applications. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: should ontology include general notion of scales        

and situate SI within this framework? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Nicola Guarino: We will need scales. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: We cannot avoid scales. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Nicola Guarino: What about inverse properties such as        

resistance and conductance ... 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @Nicola - can you give us the name of the book you cited        

again, please 

Nicola Guarino: Albert Tarantola: Elements for Physics: Quantities,        

Qualities, and Intrinsic Theories 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: we need a general framework for scales. 

[[RaviSharma|Ravi Sharma]]: Nicola Guarino: The answer lies in physics and not in the        

units alone, as there could be different ways of measuring conductance        

and also resistance and it need not always add to unity as there are        

errors in measurements and different micro processes are invloves. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: What about nonlinear scales - logarithmic, e.g        

sound intensity in decibels. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: what about scales such as rockwell hardness. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: It is just a partial order. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Actually, it is a total ordering. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: Do we model unit conversions? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Evan Wallace: Yes, otherwise we are wasting our time. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: We do it, it is simple. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: [[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]] was concerned with the mathematical        

operators needed. 

[[RaviSharma|Ravi Sharma]]: [[EvanWallace|Evan Wallace]]: Yes or else there will be no communication        

between the different measurement systems. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: chipMasters: We all want unit conversions. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]]: we need to model logarithmic functions. 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: Earlier, someone expressed a concern about scoping how        

much of "scales" do we want to tackle. I think that focusing first on        

the notions of scales for which we can provide value-added reasoning        

support (e.g., Hans-Peter mentioned automated conversion) is a good way        

to force ourselves to limit the scope to what we can reason about. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]; no dissent on need for units conversion        

modelling within the ontology. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: do we model particular quantities and        

measurements? in first draft? 

[[RaviSharma|Ravi Sharma]]: [[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]]: The scale of conversion or accuracy does not        

matter but affects accuracy of measurement whether linear, log, and        

often with limits including singularities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: The physicists are excited about particular        

measurements. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: This threatens to take us into the realms of        

other standards. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: We need particular quantities for the standard to        

be useful. Perhaps we can partially specify this. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: Include in scope some discussion of measured        

values ... 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: TC 213 does tolerance and uncertainty. Do we        

model tolerances? This has significant commercial significance. 

Nicola Guarino: I have to go now, bybye everybody. Nice discussion! 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Steve Ray: We need to differentiate measurement uncertainty        

and specification tolerance (descriptive, vs. prescriptive). 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: Can we avoid prescriptive notions of tolerance? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: Tolerances and measurement uncertainty are        

separable issues. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: I favor defering issues to tolerances. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Evan Wallace: This is an artificial distinction. this is        

problematic for commerce. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: We should limit discuss of tolerance. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: We will not consider tolerances in first        

release. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: No consensus about measurement uncertainty. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] will not include either measurement uncertainty        

or tolerance within first version. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: EdBarkemeyer: Should we divide the ontology into modules?        

Yes? Unclear, how? 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: For the record, tolerance is easy, but uncertainty and        

probability is new territory for formalization in ontology languages, so        

we risk being too ambitious. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: OWL 2 is working on modularization. CLIF? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Yes, CLIF has modularization scheme, including        

restricting scope of existential quantities. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: We want modularization. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: module import is transtive 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: Explicit microtheories - possibly inconsistent        

with each other? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Names can mean different things within        

metatheories. This is risky within a standard. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: You can get something similar by subscripting        

names with contexts in common logic. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: We do not want full CYC microtheories - e.g.,        

multiple meanings for names within microtheories. 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: metatheory//microtheory 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: EdBarkmeyers: Should we include guidance for how to do        

extensions to this standard? Yes !!! 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Yes, as far as we can. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: relationship to other standards efforts? UCUM?        

[[UnitsML]]? Other? 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: HOw can a mere mortal like myself get hold of a readable copy        

of iso 80000 ? 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: You can find VIM and various publications related to        

ISO/IEC 80000 here: 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: http://www.bipm.org/en/publications/ 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: Use NIST document on treatment of        

English units as example for how to do extensions. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JerrySmith|Jerry Smith]]: When we get to 80 percent, publish! 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: We need to know where the repository will        

how, implications for intellectual property. 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: NIST document SP 811        

http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/ 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: This closes scope discussion. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: 12:29pm - lunch break 

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: Is the conference line staying open? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We will resume at 1:15 PM, 17:15 PM UK, 18:15 Europeans time        

- i.e., 45 minutes. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: 1:19pm - back in session 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Ed: do we have a referenceable summary of what we agreed this        

morning? 

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We have resumed the meeting. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We are now discussing the standardization strategy. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: It appears that we use OASIS as the base Standards        

Development Organization. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: OASIS will accommodate a variety of file formats including        

xml, xhtml. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: After OASIS standard would be forwarded to ISO (or possibly        

W3C). 

[[JamieClark]]: Or both; issue of where to submit will be for the committee        

once the have a final OASIS Standard product. 

[[JamieClark]]: Every submission has a time and strategy tax, though, so        

that'll be easier to evaluate once underway. In any case, OASIS makes        

those submissions. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: Unhappy at the prospect of falling into the        

clutches of the W3C. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: I am guessing that W3C will pass..... 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: We want to avoid going through more than one        

standardization process. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: during the standards development process the        

draft documents will be available on the TRAC server ... 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JamieClark]]: We will need a copy of the standards drafts on        

the OASIS server (even the working documents). 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JamieClark]]: OASIS also has site for email for standards        

development. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JamieClark]]: Many XML based projects have run aground on XML        

tools issues. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Nicolas Rouqette: How will you coordinate with OMG on QUDV?        

I would like to avoid duplication of work with [[SysML]], the creation of        

similar but different standards. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: The committee will establish coordinating        

processes 

[[JamieClark]]: OASIS rules permit use of properly administered outside        

tools for hosting functions we don't carry out internally. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: NicolasRoquette: Andrew Watson at OMG is the right person        

for coordination of OMG and OASIS work. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JamieClark]]: Show the [[SysML]] the charter, ask if they want to        

be involved with the creation of the UML model for [[UoM]] ontology. 

[[JamieClark]]: Joel: Talk to our [http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#mcrae Mary McRae], she's the authority on        

approval of TC use of outside resources. And, as it happens, a CMS        

expert. Mary.mcrae [at] oasis-open.org 

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: Thank you. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[RogerBurkhart|Roger Burkhart]]: I do not see problems of coordinating the OMG        

and OASIS work. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[RogerBurkhart|Roger Burkhart]]: I chair the [[SysML]] revision group. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[RogerBurkhart|Roger Burkhart]]: Original [[SysML]] submitters gave very        

permissive license. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: We have used ODM mappings to translate        

to/from UML, Owl. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: No dissent on use of OASIS as the vehicle for        

this ontology standard. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: Let us start discussion of the charter of the        

standards group. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: Proposed name: QUOMOS: Quantity and Units of        

Measure Ontology Standard 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: Do we include usage rules in the standard? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Various: no 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: Ed, are you saying that you don't like [[SysML]]? I'm        

choked! 

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: (there is a quite a bit of discussion that is difficult to        

hear on the conference call) 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: I think we should avoid business rules - as too politically        

sensitive. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Goal is electronic open-access document. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: OASIS: non-asssertion regime. Membership in the TC waives        

your rights to content of standard. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Intended users: development of information models 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: Also document markup developers 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Also data exchange markup developers. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Evan: You skipped over a section on "dimensions". We need to        

be clear about quantity kind. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Language for conducting business: English. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Various standards to coordinate: [[UnitsML]], BIPM, ISO 80000, 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EvanWallace|Evan Wallace]]: I do not see Recommendation 20 on here. I am        

concerned that it might be constraining. I am glad to see it omitted        

here. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Do we need a heartbeat - a regular working draft        

publication? 

anonymous1 morphed into [[HajoRijgersberg|Hajo Rijgersberg]] 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JamieClark]]: forward standard to ISO in charter? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: consensus: No. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Draft title of standard: Quantity and Unit of Measure        

Ontology Standard (QUOMOS) 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: NIST (is a member of OASIS) and will support the standard. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] (is an individual member of OASIS) and will support        

the standard development. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: BAE will suport the standard and is a member of OASIS. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: NicolasRoquette (JPL) will support. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: NSF is not a member of OASIS. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[RogerBurkhart|Roger Burkhart]] (John Deere) is not a member. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Eurostep may support this. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: OMG is not a member of OASIS. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: NIST, JPL, BAE?, CMU?, Eurostep, LBNL?, --- we need to get        

approval of primary OASIS members. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: DOD DISA is a member of OASIS, could also endorse the        

standard. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Schedule for first meeting? 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: I am estimating mid-January, 2010 for first        

meeting. Mostly teleconference. 

[[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]]: Bye. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[JamieClark]]: First meeting is likely to be just a        

teleconference. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @JamieClark - OASIS should request from ISO a copy of the        

latest ISO/IEC 80000 standard for the purpose of this development (to        

Mike Smith of ISO) with the understanding that this will be put into a        

password protected shared file workspace for this working group 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: OASIS needs to request of Mike Smith a copy of        

ISO 80000 for purposes of the ontology std development. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: above suggested by [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]] 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We will resume in 5 minutes. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We are reconvening now. 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: I am back on-line and in the audio conference 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We are trying to schedule a teleconference (perhaps a part        

of Ontolog Forum) to discuss QUOMOS project. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Yim: we will have teleconference to finalize QUOMOS charter        

on Nov. 19, 2009. Thursday - see developing session details

at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/ConferenceCall_2009_11_19 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: We need all contributions, and names of        

sponsoring persons, organizations within OASIS by Nov. 16, 2009. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We now need a convenor for the mid-January 2010 - First OASIS QUOMOS TC meeting.        

[[HowardMason|Howard Mason]], [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]], [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]], [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] are candidates. 

[ subsequent post: 14-Jan-2010 is a Thursday, and could be a candidate date

for that meeting.  -PeterYim ] 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We now need a list of deliverables to go into the charter. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: A bunch of modules, each in CLIF, derived OWL 2        

DL, UML pictures, explanatory English text. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Modules will be quantities, units, and scales. Optional        

units on measurement uncertainty, tolerances. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: I may be able to participate as a representative of OASIS        

member LBNL. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Deliverables: we will produce xxxx initially. We may produce        

xxx modules later. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: We will start with SI base, and extension mechanism. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]]: Quantities, Units of Measure, Scales, SI base        

units, Derived Units, ... modules 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Maybe also a module called Dimensions. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: A core set of modules covering quantities, units of measure,        

scales, SI base units, Derived Units, Dimensions, and Extension        

mechanism. 

[[HajoRijgersberg|Hajo Rijgersberg]]: How about measures? And how about quantity kinds? Are        

they regarded as separate concepts or as classification of quantities? 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: (about an hour ago) [[HajoRijgersberg|Hajo Rijgersberg]] sent in his input about        

scope (and more) in a message at:        

http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/uom-ontology-std/2009-10/index.html 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Eachmodule shall include: CLIF, OWL @ DL, 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: I think my line is muted from your side? 

[[HajoRijgersberg|Hajo Rijgersberg]]: I'm sorry, people, I should have sent it earlier.        

Something went wrong with starting time interpretation here... 

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: (it is very difficult to hear, there is still an office        

conversation obliterating the conference) 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Hans Peter, We seem to be getting background noise from your        

phone. 

[[HansPeter_de_Koning]]: I will try to reconnect... 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: The TC will plan to meet every 2 weeks. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: The standard will be known as Quantities and Units of        

Measure Ontology Standard (QUOMOS). There was consensus on this. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Who is editing the charter? [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]] can finish the week        

of Nov. 16. [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] can mark up the wiki in the meantime. 

[[HajoRijgersberg|Hajo Rijgersberg]]: Why restrict the title of the standard to quantities        

and units? There is so much more. Doesn't the term "unit" cover what can        

be called "the domain of units"? 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Hajo, I think the title isnt meant to be proscriptive, only a        

general indication. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Dimensions are within scope, just not in the title. 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: Any other items of business? 

[[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: However, QUODMOS is kind of cute.... 

[[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]: We are adjourned. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] suggest we poll everyone on their OASIS membership        

status. Peter to put request on the uom mailing list ... we don't want        

to lose anyone! 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Great session ... thank you everyone ... audio recording and        

chat transcript will be posted tomorrow. 

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Appreciations to [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]] and NSF for hosting us today! 

-- session ended: 2009.10.30 - 15:30 EDT -- 

* '''Further Questions & Follow-up:''' - please post them to the [ uom-ontology-std ] listserv 
** if you are already subscribed, post to <uom-ontology-std [at] ontolog.cim3.net> 
** (if you are not yet subscribed) you may subscribe yourself to the [ uom-ontology-std ] listserv listserv, by sending a blank email to <uom-ontology-std-join [at] ontolog.cim3.net> from your subscribing email address, and then follow the instructions you receive back from the mailing list system. 
* Mark your calendars and come join us at the next virtual session for this working group - [[UoM_Ontology_Standard/ConferenceCall_2009_11_19]] 
* we shall look forward to those who are interested to support this effort to consider joining us at the developing OASIS QUOMOS TC - watch out for the announcement of its formation from both OASIS and ONTOLOG 

== Audio Recording of the Workshop Sessions  ==

* To download the recorded segments of the workshop, click on the respective audio link under the [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid22FN archives section] 
** individual recording segment are linked to from each of the agenda items [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid22GX above] 
** the playback of the audio files require the proper setup, and an MP3 compatible player on your computer. 
* Conference Date and Time:	30-Oct-2009 8:50am~3:30pm EDT 
* Total Duration of Recordings:	5 Hour 29 Minutes - (i) 1:06:07 ; (ii) 2:07:23 ; (iii) 2:15:15 
* Total Recording File Size:  37.6 MB (in mp3 format) - (i) 7.6; (ii) 15.0; (iii) 15.0 MB 
* suggestions: 
** its best that you listen to the session while having the respective slide presentations (when available) opened on your desktop in front of you. You'll be prompted to advance slides by the speaker. 
* ''... *my apologies for the "echos" in quite a portion of the audio recording ... I was away from my normal recording equipment and settings, and evidently, still has issues doing it right while on the road. Anyhow, I am glad the audio archive is still quite intelligible! =ppy/2009.11.01'' 

== Resources  ==

* '''UoM Working Group Work-in-progress''': 
** Wiki workspace: [[UoM_Ontology_Standard]] & [[UoM]] 
** [[UoM_Ontology_Standard_English_draft]] 
** [[UoM_Ontology_Standard_UML_Model_draft]] 
** [[UoM_Ontology_Standard_OWL_draft]] 
** [[UoM_Ontology_Standard_CLIF_draft]] 
** [[UoM_Ontology_Standard_OASIS_TC_Charter_draft]] 
** [[UoM_Ontology_Standard|Workplan]] 
** Coordination - [[UoM_Ontology_Standard/GettingOrganized]] 
** Progress tracking - http://uom.emcs.cornell.edu/ 
** Mailing List: 
*** message archive is at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/uom-ontology-std/ 
*** to join the list, send a blank email from your subscribing address to <uom-ontology-std-join [at] ontolog.cim3.net> 
** shared file repository: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/ 
* [[UoM]] virtual panel session 2009.06.19 - ConferenceCall_2009_06_19 
* [[UoM]] virtual panel session 2009.09.24 - ConferenceCall_2009_09_24 
* [[UoM]] virtual workshop preview session 2009.10.22 - [[UoM_Ontology_Standard/ConferenceCall_2009_10_22]] 
* [[OntologySummit2009]] 
** [[OntologySummit2009_Communique]] 
** FrankOlken's talk during the [[OntologySummit2009_Symposium]] on "[[OntologySummit2009_Symposium|Quantities and Units of Measure]]" as a candidate ontology-based standard we can work on 
* Earlier discussion: 
** thread starting from: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/2009-06/msg00005.html 
** thread starting from: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/2009-05/msg00000.html 
*** continuing from: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/2009-05/msg00038.html 
*** and: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/2009-05/msg00062.html 
* upload your [[UoM]] ontologies to the [[OOR]]-sandbox at: http://oor-01.cim3.net 

----

''For the records ...'' 

== How To Join Remotely (while the session is in progress)  ==

* '''1.''' Dial in with a phone: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30_Registration#nid22JR 
* '''2.''' Open chat in a new browser window: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/uom_20091030 
** and, '''2.2''' ... follow the process described [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid22G1 here] 
* '''3.''' Download presentations for each speaker by clicking on the link associated with each [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30#nid22GX agenda item] 

== Attendees  ==

=== On-site Participants  ===

* [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]] (co-chair) 
* [[EdBarkmeyer|Ed Barkmeyer]] (co-chair) 
* [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]] (co-chair) 
* [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]] 
* [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] 
* [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]] 
* [[JamieClark]] 
* [[ChipMasters|Chip Masters]] 
* [[PavithraKenjige|Pavithra Kenjige]] (observer) 
* [[JoeCollins|Joe Collins]] 
* [[JerrySmith|Jerry Smith]] 
* [[EvanWallace|Evan Wallace]] 

=== Remote Participants  ===

* [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]] 
* [[RobRaskin|Rob Raskin]] 
* Nicola Guarino 
* [[RogerBurkhart|Roger Burkhart]] 
* [[HansPeter_De_Koning]] 
* Silvia Gaio (University of Padua, Italy) (observer) 
* [[BrandNiemann|Brand Niemann]] (observer) 
* Bogart Vargas (Raytheon) (observer) 
* Mark Rivas (consultant working with BTA, UK) (observer) 
* [[NicolasRouquette|Nicolas Rouquette]] 
* [[RaviSharma|Ravi Sharma]] (observer) 
* [[HajoRijgersberg|Hajo Rijgersberg]] 

[[Category:Event_Meeting]]    [[Category:OntologySummit2009]]    [[Category:OntologBasedStandards]]    [[Category:UoM_Ontology_Standard]]